I do love and respect AND vehemently disagree with my dad—for the past 35 years we have shared very few views and are frequently polar opposites. But I think love should transcend politics. He uses very different sources than I do for information, and if we can’t agree on a reliable source how do we manage to have a basic understanding of a different viewpoint? But I’ll always love my dad.
Jenni, I like your post. I would also add this “love and respect” dichotomy is a bit unrealistic and forces one into an us or them mindset.
This then leads to if I do not love or respect this person and my views are so important, maybe a little physical force or hate speech is justified. And I think you are now on a very slippery slope.
And truth be told, I am an ornery old man, there is a very small number of people I love, but I am working hard to give all folks a limited amount of respect. Some get more respect than others and political views are in the mix.But as part of my behavior, physical force and hate must be curtailed.
I adhere to a modified Christian viewpoint of “Respect thy neighbor”.
During the time your father raised you did he exhibit the opinions and views that he does now - those with which he now identifies (which are opposed to yours)? If he is anything like my recently-deceased mother, her views morphed considerably (180 degrees) in the later stages of her life - starting around 1996 or so (hmmmm). Perhaps you love your father (as I loved my mother) because of the values and views with which he inculcated you as you were growing up. (As my mom did with me.) You love your Dad for what he was (as I loved my Mom for who she was). By the time she died, her espoused political views were so warped from what they had been 30-35 years earlier, her younger self would not have recognized her in her old age.
I can respect people who vote differently than I do, including in the upcoming election, and I think you, Eric Zorn, could as well. How many people do you know well who are planning to vote for Trump? Do you understand why they are voting that way? Before love and respect there has to be understanding.
There are a lot of reasons why someone might have preferred Trump over Biden (assuming the quote applied when Biden was the presumptive nominee). Some of those reasons are based on good intent. It is also possible that things you find repulsive about Trump find a shared sentiment with many Trump voters. Have you ever held your nose to vote for someone?
For example, some people think that more trade protectionism will be good for the US economy, and Trump is much more credible than Biden on protectionism (I think he is, but I do not think protectionism is good for the economy or even the people it is intended to help). I know plenty of people who think protectionism is good. I disagree but I never disrespect them due to that issue. I could be wrong, after all.
I convinced my wife, a life-long Dem to vote for Corinne Wood in a Republican primary for IL Governor in 2002 because she was pro-choice. This is the single most important issue to her. All of the Dem candidates were pro-choice and she did not have a strong preference between them. So she voted her issue. Does that make her a traitor to the Democratic Party? Some people think so, but so what?
I also believe that the vast majority of people are good. Half of the country is not reprehensible or stupid. In addition to individual policies, everyone has their own assessment of the things that they fear about the government and its direction. They also have different assessments of which politicians they can trust or at least predict.
Yes. In 1932, the German economy was in a great depression with 30% unemployment, had massive, required debt payments for WWI reparations, and the government coalition had collapsed. Sixteen parties ran candidates, with the Nazi party winning 37% of seats. The Centre party chose to form a government with the Nazis, no party would align with the Communists. Germany had only been a republic for 14 years so there was little knowledge or experience in the population or the government and there was lingering confidence in autocratic leadership from the centuries under the aristocracy. So, 63% did not vote for the Nazis, and historians agree that many early supporters of the Nazis thought they were getting stability and recovery and that the Nazis could be controlled. 11% of Germans were Nazi party members.
I guess that’s the question, though, isn’t it? Is the vast majority of people good, and what does “good” mean in this context? You know, if almost half of the current population is going to vote for a fascist, how “good” is the vast majority of people?
I think that when people say the vast majority of people are “good,” what they mean is that, when they come into meaningful contact with other people, other people are usually nice and relatable to them. But that could be because of social convention rather than the innate moral “goodness” of the other person.
I only have encountered a few bad people in my life. Lots of annoying, hectoring, foolish, brainwashed, shallow, ignorant, erratic, prone to anger, entitled, etc people. From that sample I conclude the vast majority of people are not bad. I would call them all good people with respect to how they behave.
Most people hold social and political views that I think are deeply unethical. But they are almost all good people. I accept their political and social views as a big difference of values. It doesn’t mean they are bad.
Seriously?!?!? I am unable to find a speck of respect for anyone who says that Trump is a person they can vote for. The list of his deep personal flaws is longer than the Mississippi River. We can start with the fact that he is a convicted rapist. And that he has stolen millions from people he signed contracts with and denied payments to. Just ask the piano salesman in New York when Trump ordered many pianos and chose not to pay him for them. And that he has vowed to violate the Constitution on his first day in office. And turn the Civil Service into a complete patronage-run system. [You may recall how well that worked (works?) in Chicago.]
There is NO amount of disagreement about the role of protectionism in our economy that justifies wanting to install a dictator in the White House.
And furthermore, a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Trump has NEVER won the popular vote. With a sliver of votes in key states he took over the Electoral College.
My late mother was a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic conservative. I disagreed with her strongly since I learned to think. Parents are different, but I have no respect for those who have MAGA "views" as those "ideas" threaten our way of life. Someone having a different faith (not evidence based) is a matter of indifference to me who has no "faith," until that faith leads them to interfere in the lives of others, brainwash children, and generally force that faith and its tenets down our throats,
I have a large number of friends who support Trump to varying degrees. I have one who is an adamant Trump supporter. We get along fine and in many cases agree not to discuss politics. We’ve had too many good times to let this get between us.
The far right has used divisiveness as a way to power. I refuse to let them win.
I am not a Trump supporter, but I would say the left has also used divisiveness as a way to power. We need strong centrist leadership that does not rely on villains and victims or anger and fear as the primary premise of their policies and programs.
I'm relieved that Biden has stepped down and I'm looking forward to the quick nomination of Harris and her ramping up an aggressive, attacking campaign. I was very resistant to the idea immediately after the debate, but the constant drumbeat and the infighting were killing Biden's chances even if he was physically strong and able to continue. Although I am still not optimistic we'll win, at least our side will be united and we'll be able to say we tried the best move we had available.
Regarding losing friendships over politics, I think in normal times of the past that would have been an overreaction, politics really was more like Coke v. Pepsi, but not these days. I can't be friends with someone that can look past mocking a disabled person, disparaging women, demonizing immigrants (of whom I am one), etc. etc. The policies he and his party promote have caused real suffering to real people of this country. Refusing to normalize the MAGA views is not similar to starting a religious war, it's more similar to trying to stop one.
Edited to add: This sounds a bit like the Tolerance paradox - if as a society we are forced to tolerate hateful and intolerant views as valid opinions, ultimately the intolerant will come to dominate. The philosopher Karl Popper's answer was that intolerance cannot be tolerated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
I'm going to have to distinguish here between friends and family. I'm also going to use the term disrespect to cover my feelings about friends and relatives who say Trump is their guy. Just as with Covid restrictions I can't respect people who don't see what DT represents, or what he has promised. Such people only see outcomes myopically. No mask, no shots, vote for a racist, mysogynistic, homophobic, constitution defiling convicted felon because those same feelings or views lurk in their hearts. We can stay away from friends or aquaintences but family is forever. I will lose respect for and see family members differently but walk away from them? I won't do that. To me that's letting Trump or Trumpism get too far into my head.
We live in a democracy--so I think I need to tolerate lots of behavior that I consider unethical. But there's a limit. I struggle to define that limit clearly. But McCain and Romney and Haley are on the acceptable side of it and Trump is not.
Haley is definitely not on the acceptable side of it, she's as far right wing nut as they come & she proved that when she caved & enthusiastically endorsed the fat traitor!
Perhaps we are attracted to people with certain personality traits as I don't believe I have any close acquaintances enthralled by Trumpism and what it represents. I do have a few colleagues with the malady and I look at them with a combination of pity and repulsion. It's hard for me to understand how otherwise intelligent human beings can fall for a bigoted, pathological liar and snake-oil salesman. Is he a reflection of their personalities?
No, love and respect is impossible, at least for me.
I would only add that there are people that are not 'enthralled by Trumpism' that are appalled and repulsed by the left. They have a different assessment of the risks to society. They do not need to be haters to feel rejected and abandoned by the Democrats.
The question about politics and friendship is presented as a trap. On the one hand you are asking readers to vote on the “general sentiment” yet you then pivot to the very specific issue of Trump being a candidate. Historically, this was not an issue, but to some it may be now as a specific, not general matter. So yes, the fact that the general sentiment shouldn’t matter still holds true. The question should have been asked specifically about this one and recent elections.
We just got back from vacay with a big bunch of friends - so fun. I angst over leaving in peak summer--the yard, the food gardens...am going to try to recall the reason for doing it. Stretches time and mind and then there is the big blue of MI. A good time to turn off the noise--not much you can to about it right and everyday will bring more things others can discuss. Have fun..will be here when you get back for the convention news
I reconnected with my old college roommate a few years ago, and he told me he was a Trump supporter. I told him that was a dealbreaker for me because Trump wanted to become a dictator and steal my grandchildren's ability to thrive in a free country. I wasn't exaggerating. Those are exactly the stakes.
It’s one thing to love one’s parent regardless of their political choices, and something else entirely to continue interacting with non-related friends and other acquaintances who support a fascist, misogynist political future for America. I would choose not to interact with anyone supporting a ticket that demonizes women, people of color, and anyone who is not white, Christian and CIS gendered. I could not possibly have enough in common with such a person to maintain any kind of meaningful relationship. For my own emotional health, I would let go of that person in a heartbeat.
"Love" is the easier one. We're talking about good friends and family here, including my own parents. If 7 out of your top 12 issues lean towards one side, you begrudgingly end up voting for that side.
"Respect" is different, but still politics can be separated out. Voting Republican due to the border, spending, etc. vs. actually liking Trump are two different things. Our political views are often the summary of our resources. If 90% of your resources are one sided, you're brainwashed. I still may respect you as a person generally, but not politically.
So, generally I still "love & respect" people I know who are otherwise good people, but disagree with politically.
Democrats had the country in the bag 10 years ago. When the Great Awokening emerged, not only could I detect massive groupthink & overreach, but also fuel for MAGA. I made a couple comments on social media, merely asking questions, including one discussion about only focusing on police killings if it fits the racial narrative. Immediately quite a few people who normally interact dropped off. I also noticed these were all "acquaintances" such as ex-workers, who didn't know me very well. To them, if you weren't marching lock step in the current movement, you were the "other side". A lot of these people have since come back around. Something to keep in mind when considering breaking relationships due to politics.
Most people I know stay away from discussing politics. And I think most people vote on issues and not the person on the top of the ticket. If you believe the border issue was a disaster and you're not in favor of paying off other people's loans, you may vote republican. Doesn't mean you like Trump, but if those issues are important to you you're not going to vote democratic. And if abortion and climate change are important you're probably going democratic. I know Republicans that think Trump is a moron, but they don't like the issues the democrats are endorsing. If you can't respect people's differences you're going to have a lot of problems getting along with people in general. The world needs more love and understanding, not less.
Again, I have never voted for Trump and am pro choice, but feel that some issues are more important than giving states the right to craft their abortion laws. 14 states have banned abortion. All of these bans have an exception to prevent the death of the pregnant person and most bans include other exceptions that fall into three categories: when there is risk to the health of the pregnant person, when the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, and when there is a lethal fetal anomaly.
The student loan issue alone is not more important to me than a woman’s right to choose in those14 states, but a $36 trillion debt is. A person can travel to or move to 74% of our states to protect their abortion rights. A person cannot move to another state to escape their $100,000+ portion of the national debt. It is the fault of both parties. Just balance the budget like every american and every company must. Make do with your $4.5 trillion in revenue last year. There was one Trump mantra I liked: “clear the swamp”, but that was/is a pipe dream.
I didn't answer the quiz because it's not an either or question. What is covered under the rubric of "politics" covers a lot. There are people with whom I disagree "politically" but we still have mutual love and respect. But there are people whose "politics" seem to preclude mutual respect. Such "politics" are a threat to democracy--mutual respect is the absolute foundation of democracy. These people are, in the fullest sense of the term, my mortal enemies.
I do love and respect AND vehemently disagree with my dad—for the past 35 years we have shared very few views and are frequently polar opposites. But I think love should transcend politics. He uses very different sources than I do for information, and if we can’t agree on a reliable source how do we manage to have a basic understanding of a different viewpoint? But I’ll always love my dad.
Jenni, I like your post. I would also add this “love and respect” dichotomy is a bit unrealistic and forces one into an us or them mindset.
This then leads to if I do not love or respect this person and my views are so important, maybe a little physical force or hate speech is justified. And I think you are now on a very slippery slope.
And truth be told, I am an ornery old man, there is a very small number of people I love, but I am working hard to give all folks a limited amount of respect. Some get more respect than others and political views are in the mix.But as part of my behavior, physical force and hate must be curtailed.
I adhere to a modified Christian viewpoint of “Respect thy neighbor”.
Jenni -
During the time your father raised you did he exhibit the opinions and views that he does now - those with which he now identifies (which are opposed to yours)? If he is anything like my recently-deceased mother, her views morphed considerably (180 degrees) in the later stages of her life - starting around 1996 or so (hmmmm). Perhaps you love your father (as I loved my mother) because of the values and views with which he inculcated you as you were growing up. (As my mom did with me.) You love your Dad for what he was (as I loved my Mom for who she was). By the time she died, her espoused political views were so warped from what they had been 30-35 years earlier, her younger self would not have recognized her in her old age.
I can respect people who vote differently than I do, including in the upcoming election, and I think you, Eric Zorn, could as well. How many people do you know well who are planning to vote for Trump? Do you understand why they are voting that way? Before love and respect there has to be understanding.
There are a lot of reasons why someone might have preferred Trump over Biden (assuming the quote applied when Biden was the presumptive nominee). Some of those reasons are based on good intent. It is also possible that things you find repulsive about Trump find a shared sentiment with many Trump voters. Have you ever held your nose to vote for someone?
For example, some people think that more trade protectionism will be good for the US economy, and Trump is much more credible than Biden on protectionism (I think he is, but I do not think protectionism is good for the economy or even the people it is intended to help). I know plenty of people who think protectionism is good. I disagree but I never disrespect them due to that issue. I could be wrong, after all.
I convinced my wife, a life-long Dem to vote for Corinne Wood in a Republican primary for IL Governor in 2002 because she was pro-choice. This is the single most important issue to her. All of the Dem candidates were pro-choice and she did not have a strong preference between them. So she voted her issue. Does that make her a traitor to the Democratic Party? Some people think so, but so what?
I also believe that the vast majority of people are good. Half of the country is not reprehensible or stupid. In addition to individual policies, everyone has their own assessment of the things that they fear about the government and its direction. They also have different assessments of which politicians they can trust or at least predict.
Well said. It seem to me that many people on both sides in this election are voting against what they fear more than voting for their aspirations.
Would you say that the vast majority of people in Germany in 1932 were good?
Yes. In 1932, the German economy was in a great depression with 30% unemployment, had massive, required debt payments for WWI reparations, and the government coalition had collapsed. Sixteen parties ran candidates, with the Nazi party winning 37% of seats. The Centre party chose to form a government with the Nazis, no party would align with the Communists. Germany had only been a republic for 14 years so there was little knowledge or experience in the population or the government and there was lingering confidence in autocratic leadership from the centuries under the aristocracy. So, 63% did not vote for the Nazis, and historians agree that many early supporters of the Nazis thought they were getting stability and recovery and that the Nazis could be controlled. 11% of Germans were Nazi party members.
So people who vote for an openly bigoted anti-Semitic party are good people as long as there are problems in their lives?
Yes, if you accept that the vast majority of people are good, it follows almost mathematically.
I guess that’s the question, though, isn’t it? Is the vast majority of people good, and what does “good” mean in this context? You know, if almost half of the current population is going to vote for a fascist, how “good” is the vast majority of people?
I think that when people say the vast majority of people are “good,” what they mean is that, when they come into meaningful contact with other people, other people are usually nice and relatable to them. But that could be because of social convention rather than the innate moral “goodness” of the other person.
I only have encountered a few bad people in my life. Lots of annoying, hectoring, foolish, brainwashed, shallow, ignorant, erratic, prone to anger, entitled, etc people. From that sample I conclude the vast majority of people are not bad. I would call them all good people with respect to how they behave.
Most people hold social and political views that I think are deeply unethical. But they are almost all good people. I accept their political and social views as a big difference of values. It doesn’t mean they are bad.
Seriously?!?!? I am unable to find a speck of respect for anyone who says that Trump is a person they can vote for. The list of his deep personal flaws is longer than the Mississippi River. We can start with the fact that he is a convicted rapist. And that he has stolen millions from people he signed contracts with and denied payments to. Just ask the piano salesman in New York when Trump ordered many pianos and chose not to pay him for them. And that he has vowed to violate the Constitution on his first day in office. And turn the Civil Service into a complete patronage-run system. [You may recall how well that worked (works?) in Chicago.]
There is NO amount of disagreement about the role of protectionism in our economy that justifies wanting to install a dictator in the White House.
And furthermore, a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Trump has NEVER won the popular vote. With a sliver of votes in key states he took over the Electoral College.
One minor correction, the Missouri River is actually longer than the Mississippi by a few hundred miles!
Learned something new and surprising today, thanks to your post, Mr. Correctly,
My late mother was a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic conservative. I disagreed with her strongly since I learned to think. Parents are different, but I have no respect for those who have MAGA "views" as those "ideas" threaten our way of life. Someone having a different faith (not evidence based) is a matter of indifference to me who has no "faith," until that faith leads them to interfere in the lives of others, brainwash children, and generally force that faith and its tenets down our throats,
I have a large number of friends who support Trump to varying degrees. I have one who is an adamant Trump supporter. We get along fine and in many cases agree not to discuss politics. We’ve had too many good times to let this get between us.
The far right has used divisiveness as a way to power. I refuse to let them win.
I am not a Trump supporter, but I would say the left has also used divisiveness as a way to power. We need strong centrist leadership that does not rely on villains and victims or anger and fear as the primary premise of their policies and programs.
I'm relieved that Biden has stepped down and I'm looking forward to the quick nomination of Harris and her ramping up an aggressive, attacking campaign. I was very resistant to the idea immediately after the debate, but the constant drumbeat and the infighting were killing Biden's chances even if he was physically strong and able to continue. Although I am still not optimistic we'll win, at least our side will be united and we'll be able to say we tried the best move we had available.
Regarding losing friendships over politics, I think in normal times of the past that would have been an overreaction, politics really was more like Coke v. Pepsi, but not these days. I can't be friends with someone that can look past mocking a disabled person, disparaging women, demonizing immigrants (of whom I am one), etc. etc. The policies he and his party promote have caused real suffering to real people of this country. Refusing to normalize the MAGA views is not similar to starting a religious war, it's more similar to trying to stop one.
Edited to add: This sounds a bit like the Tolerance paradox - if as a society we are forced to tolerate hateful and intolerant views as valid opinions, ultimately the intolerant will come to dominate. The philosopher Karl Popper's answer was that intolerance cannot be tolerated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
I'm going to have to distinguish here between friends and family. I'm also going to use the term disrespect to cover my feelings about friends and relatives who say Trump is their guy. Just as with Covid restrictions I can't respect people who don't see what DT represents, or what he has promised. Such people only see outcomes myopically. No mask, no shots, vote for a racist, mysogynistic, homophobic, constitution defiling convicted felon because those same feelings or views lurk in their hearts. We can stay away from friends or aquaintences but family is forever. I will lose respect for and see family members differently but walk away from them? I won't do that. To me that's letting Trump or Trumpism get too far into my head.
We live in a democracy--so I think I need to tolerate lots of behavior that I consider unethical. But there's a limit. I struggle to define that limit clearly. But McCain and Romney and Haley are on the acceptable side of it and Trump is not.
Haley is definitely not on the acceptable side of it, she's as far right wing nut as they come & she proved that when she caved & enthusiastically endorsed the fat traitor!
Perhaps we are attracted to people with certain personality traits as I don't believe I have any close acquaintances enthralled by Trumpism and what it represents. I do have a few colleagues with the malady and I look at them with a combination of pity and repulsion. It's hard for me to understand how otherwise intelligent human beings can fall for a bigoted, pathological liar and snake-oil salesman. Is he a reflection of their personalities?
No, love and respect is impossible, at least for me.
I would only add that there are people that are not 'enthralled by Trumpism' that are appalled and repulsed by the left. They have a different assessment of the risks to society. They do not need to be haters to feel rejected and abandoned by the Democrats.
The question about politics and friendship is presented as a trap. On the one hand you are asking readers to vote on the “general sentiment” yet you then pivot to the very specific issue of Trump being a candidate. Historically, this was not an issue, but to some it may be now as a specific, not general matter. So yes, the fact that the general sentiment shouldn’t matter still holds true. The question should have been asked specifically about this one and recent elections.
We just got back from vacay with a big bunch of friends - so fun. I angst over leaving in peak summer--the yard, the food gardens...am going to try to recall the reason for doing it. Stretches time and mind and then there is the big blue of MI. A good time to turn off the noise--not much you can to about it right and everyday will bring more things others can discuss. Have fun..will be here when you get back for the convention news
I reconnected with my old college roommate a few years ago, and he told me he was a Trump supporter. I told him that was a dealbreaker for me because Trump wanted to become a dictator and steal my grandchildren's ability to thrive in a free country. I wasn't exaggerating. Those are exactly the stakes.
It’s one thing to love one’s parent regardless of their political choices, and something else entirely to continue interacting with non-related friends and other acquaintances who support a fascist, misogynist political future for America. I would choose not to interact with anyone supporting a ticket that demonizes women, people of color, and anyone who is not white, Christian and CIS gendered. I could not possibly have enough in common with such a person to maintain any kind of meaningful relationship. For my own emotional health, I would let go of that person in a heartbeat.
"Love" is the easier one. We're talking about good friends and family here, including my own parents. If 7 out of your top 12 issues lean towards one side, you begrudgingly end up voting for that side.
"Respect" is different, but still politics can be separated out. Voting Republican due to the border, spending, etc. vs. actually liking Trump are two different things. Our political views are often the summary of our resources. If 90% of your resources are one sided, you're brainwashed. I still may respect you as a person generally, but not politically.
So, generally I still "love & respect" people I know who are otherwise good people, but disagree with politically.
Democrats had the country in the bag 10 years ago. When the Great Awokening emerged, not only could I detect massive groupthink & overreach, but also fuel for MAGA. I made a couple comments on social media, merely asking questions, including one discussion about only focusing on police killings if it fits the racial narrative. Immediately quite a few people who normally interact dropped off. I also noticed these were all "acquaintances" such as ex-workers, who didn't know me very well. To them, if you weren't marching lock step in the current movement, you were the "other side". A lot of these people have since come back around. Something to keep in mind when considering breaking relationships due to politics.
Most people I know stay away from discussing politics. And I think most people vote on issues and not the person on the top of the ticket. If you believe the border issue was a disaster and you're not in favor of paying off other people's loans, you may vote republican. Doesn't mean you like Trump, but if those issues are important to you you're not going to vote democratic. And if abortion and climate change are important you're probably going democratic. I know Republicans that think Trump is a moron, but they don't like the issues the democrats are endorsing. If you can't respect people's differences you're going to have a lot of problems getting along with people in general. The world needs more love and understanding, not less.
I can't love and/or provide understanding to someone who prioritizes the student loan issue over women's life and health.
Again, I have never voted for Trump and am pro choice, but feel that some issues are more important than giving states the right to craft their abortion laws. 14 states have banned abortion. All of these bans have an exception to prevent the death of the pregnant person and most bans include other exceptions that fall into three categories: when there is risk to the health of the pregnant person, when the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, and when there is a lethal fetal anomaly.
The student loan issue alone is not more important to me than a woman’s right to choose in those14 states, but a $36 trillion debt is. A person can travel to or move to 74% of our states to protect their abortion rights. A person cannot move to another state to escape their $100,000+ portion of the national debt. It is the fault of both parties. Just balance the budget like every american and every company must. Make do with your $4.5 trillion in revenue last year. There was one Trump mantra I liked: “clear the swamp”, but that was/is a pipe dream.
EZ, I too have “flabbergasted contempt”, but only for those pineapple pizza eaters.
THAT'S IT!!! DAVID O.
You will not be invited to the Picayune Sentinel Pizza party. We are a pineapple loving group you and your kind has no place at our social gathering.
Will my love for cauliflower crust grant me any favor?😂🤷♂️😉
LOL. We will allow it if you are gluten intolerant.
This reminds me of the ridiculous arguments about whether or not deep dish pizza is worthy of liking.
That’s a ridiculous argument. Deep dish is delicious when done right!
ha ha 😆
I didn't answer the quiz because it's not an either or question. What is covered under the rubric of "politics" covers a lot. There are people with whom I disagree "politically" but we still have mutual love and respect. But there are people whose "politics" seem to preclude mutual respect. Such "politics" are a threat to democracy--mutual respect is the absolute foundation of democracy. These people are, in the fullest sense of the term, my mortal enemies.