Eric, I love your twice weekly Sentinel! Hey, the links in your story about John Fountain that were showing us the 2 revisions suggested by his editor did not work. Did others have this issue? I tried on 2 different devices, but no go. I’d love to see those proposed revisions. Thanks Eric!
I'm sorry to see John Fountain leave the ST. I enjoyed his thoughtfully written columns. I had jumped ship from the Trib when Alden took over and went to the ST because I still needed a daily paper physically in my hands each morning. If editorial overreach continues to infect the ST, I'll bail on them as well.
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I too can't get the links to work. Can you fix? I had excellent editors at CHICAGO magazine who saved me from myself; from my penchant to include every quote, anecdote, etc that i accumulated in my reporting. When i was blogging on politics for CHICAGO'S website, 1 of the best was Esther Kang, now at the combined Sun-Times WBEZ. I'd like to see the changes Jennifer suggested. Changing the point or meaning of a column, especially on a personal subject, would never have been acceptable.
Soccer will never be adopted by Americans for the following reasons. 1. Flopping -Americans find it offensive and it is done ALL the time in soccer. Timing -Americans like clock management while soccer always has add ons-nobody seems to know exactly when the match ends. Scoring - Americans will never get excited about a zero to zero tie. Penalty kicks seem to always determine the outcome of the game- Americans do not like game outcomes determined by the refs. Finally soccer does not seem to reflect any type of sportsmanship - World Cup seems to emphasize country against country. And can FIFA be any more corrupt?
I agree with most of what you say. Resorting to penalty kicks to determine which team goes on in a World Cup match is atrocious. Keeping the team v team play going until a goal is scored. Dropping team v team and resorting to one on one penalties detracts from the 120+ minutes of play (game time + extra time + overtime) that went on beforehand. I know that hockey games are ultimately resolved through penalty shoot-outs (which I also hate). Why play for so long only to cheapen the outcome by resorting to "artificial" means? I guess I could understand for "regular" matches (which are driven by corporate advertising/TV schedules, and where *some* reasonable end might make sense), but for the World Cup? (or even Premier League or European League Championship Games?)
A friend and I got into this discussion the other day - they likened it to tiebreakers in tennis (winning by 2 consecutive points vs winning two consecutive games - as being "artificial"). I countered by saying that tiebreakers were fine - winning a point through serve/return and volley is the essence of tennis. I likened the penalty kick resolution in soccer matches to what it would be like have a service ace contest in tennis (which player can serve more aces against their opponent).
amen on the flopping, and the phony acting which goes with it. why can't the ruling bodies of soccer - FIFA et al - fix this? some of the flops are just so obvious. flopping in soccer shd be penalized, as it is in the NBA [which i don't watch, for other reasons.]
1 more thought on john fountain: . I get both S-T & Trib delivered 7 days a week & don't have the heart to cancel. Post-Alden acquisition, the Tribune is way too full of news about the suburbs with Pioneer Press & other suburban paper bylines. It's not that the reporting or writing is subpar--it's not--but i'm not interested in reading about Elgin or the suburbs on the North Shore or south or west of the city. I haven't read the papers today (yet), but yesterday i "read" both in under 10 minutes. Just as there's room & need for a 3rd political party, there's room for an in-depth city paper.
I liked (almost) ALL of the visual Tweets today. The expression on the kid's face in the "bump" photo was the reason why I chose that visual Tweet over the "glass half full" Tweet. (Although Catercrombie *was* excellent.)
Thank you, Eric, for publishing the story of John W. Fountain’s departure from the Sun-Times, and especially the link to the Chicago Crusader. I particularly liked the quote Mr. Fountain posted to his cubicle: “Never Internalize Their Disrespect.” That concept is critical for members of all minority groups that are vilified and marginalized in our culture if we are to thrive. And it’s difficult. When kids are little, they pick up and learn the structure and values and beliefs of the culture in which they grow up, including that culture’s deeply ingrained feelings toward its minority groups. To learn not to accept deeply ingrained parts of the culture in which one grows up is hard. And when you realize that you have to do that, it requires you, on some level, always to be an outsider, to be a member of the community who is, in very important ways, not a member.
eric, for this week's 'Ya gotta see these tweets!' poll, i wish you had offered the option 'None of the above'. i realize humor is quite personal - and i personally didn't like any of these tweets - no acctg for taste, right? and i am a big fan of the 'Ya gotta see these tweets!' section. so, you keep trying, i'll keep reading, and expect there will be some/many visual tweets in the future which tickle my funnybone.
‘” It was a dealbreaker for me because as a writer who happens to be a Black man, native Chicagoan and West Sider, it has always been clear to me that my voice in journalism, especially here at home, and especially as a columnist, offers a unique perspective and voice. And that voice must always be my own — the way I speak, the way I tell the story, my words. Not an editor's. She wouldn't budge. She wouldn't listen to reason and she was downright belligerent and disrespectful to me not just as a writer, and not just as one of the Sun-Times' most decorated columnists, but to me as a human being. She left me no choice.’” -- John W. Fountain
Perhaps accepting responsibility for the fight, Fountain could work somewhere that people are sympathetic with his cause – it seems like he is on a bad racial trip and possibly overly protective of his own writing and image; but I do think that it can be quite troubling when someone structurally modifies a piece of writing, especially in a professional editor/writer relationship. Who wants their work revised, especially by a determined editor? Nobody. On the other hand, what editor wants a writer with a seeming hidden agenda, which appears like it could be the case here. Be that as it may, it seems to me that editors are allowed a lot of liberty with revisions; yet, is a tiff with an editor really worth a good job? My understanding is that legalized slavery, in the historical sense, ended 160 years ago – yet culturally, freely moving on has been difficult. Maybe we can be grateful for what we have and make the best of the opportunities that come our way.
The Fountain thing is bizarre. It sounds like they both felt disrespected, but this presentation makes Fountain seem the more reasonable of the two. I'm no columnist or journalist, but I would have guessed that columnists, especially those of long-standing, were treated with a pretty light touch, with deference toward tone, style, and content choices, absent some major concern (which this didn't seem to present). Am I wrong?
Yes, editors give columnists more leeway, especially if they are long-timers. But editor is ultimately responsible and has final say. Fountain seems to be picking a fight.
I wonder if Fountian and Kho had an opportunity to build an in-person relationship? A working relationship that is entirely in text or on the phone would be more prone to misunderstandings, particularly with respect to issues that triggered emotions. Even big egos can generally 'bump heads' in person better than remotely. I assume that Kho also sensed condescension and disrespect in order to react as she did. Too bad that they couldn't sort it out.
Isn't there somebody higher up in the newspaper hierarchy who could have mediated this disagreement before it reached the level of acrimony between Fountain and Kho that forced him to leave the Sun-Times?
Yes, I agree. Charlie Meyerson hits the mark for me (https://www.everygoddamnday.com/2018/02/read-it-like-you-hate-me.html) in the sense that the "read my work like s/he hates me" attitude leads to a detachment of the editor from the writer's aplomb, necessary if any critical objectivity in the editing process is to exist. It seems to me that the focus is on the writer's stated positions, arguments, stories, etc. with an eye toward improving them, which takes a measure of intellectual detachment coming from the editor and his/her work. Like a surgeon performing open heart surgery, it isn't the person’s vanity that is on the operating table -- making his/her cameo appearance -- but it is the surgeon's clinical work that determines success or failure, life or death. If the work is bad, then the patient is sorely out of luck! Fontaine is better served not through egoism but through literary skill.
Eric, I love your twice weekly Sentinel! Hey, the links in your story about John Fountain that were showing us the 2 revisions suggested by his editor did not work. Did others have this issue? I tried on 2 different devices, but no go. I’d love to see those proposed revisions. Thanks Eric!
That "case" about the website designer "artist" is so wildly overblown that I can't muster enough interest to care any more.
That "artist" didn't even *have* a gay couple / clients over which this litigation went all the way to the Supreme Court?
What a performative, hate-filled waste of life *that* is.
I'm sorry to see John Fountain leave the ST. I enjoyed his thoughtfully written columns. I had jumped ship from the Trib when Alden took over and went to the ST because I still needed a daily paper physically in my hands each morning. If editorial overreach continues to infect the ST, I'll bail on them as well.
Over the past few weeks, I received this message after trying to respond to your tweet opinion poll: We were unable to record your vote. Please refresh the page and try again.
I too can't get the links to work. Can you fix? I had excellent editors at CHICAGO magazine who saved me from myself; from my penchant to include every quote, anecdote, etc that i accumulated in my reporting. When i was blogging on politics for CHICAGO'S website, 1 of the best was Esther Kang, now at the combined Sun-Times WBEZ. I'd like to see the changes Jennifer suggested. Changing the point or meaning of a column, especially on a personal subject, would never have been acceptable.
Soccer will never be adopted by Americans for the following reasons. 1. Flopping -Americans find it offensive and it is done ALL the time in soccer. Timing -Americans like clock management while soccer always has add ons-nobody seems to know exactly when the match ends. Scoring - Americans will never get excited about a zero to zero tie. Penalty kicks seem to always determine the outcome of the game- Americans do not like game outcomes determined by the refs. Finally soccer does not seem to reflect any type of sportsmanship - World Cup seems to emphasize country against country. And can FIFA be any more corrupt?
.
I agree with most of what you say. Resorting to penalty kicks to determine which team goes on in a World Cup match is atrocious. Keeping the team v team play going until a goal is scored. Dropping team v team and resorting to one on one penalties detracts from the 120+ minutes of play (game time + extra time + overtime) that went on beforehand. I know that hockey games are ultimately resolved through penalty shoot-outs (which I also hate). Why play for so long only to cheapen the outcome by resorting to "artificial" means? I guess I could understand for "regular" matches (which are driven by corporate advertising/TV schedules, and where *some* reasonable end might make sense), but for the World Cup? (or even Premier League or European League Championship Games?)
A friend and I got into this discussion the other day - they likened it to tiebreakers in tennis (winning by 2 consecutive points vs winning two consecutive games - as being "artificial"). I countered by saying that tiebreakers were fine - winning a point through serve/return and volley is the essence of tennis. I likened the penalty kick resolution in soccer matches to what it would be like have a service ace contest in tennis (which player can serve more aces against their opponent).
amen on the flopping, and the phony acting which goes with it. why can't the ruling bodies of soccer - FIFA et al - fix this? some of the flops are just so obvious. flopping in soccer shd be penalized, as it is in the NBA [which i don't watch, for other reasons.]
1 more thought on john fountain: . I get both S-T & Trib delivered 7 days a week & don't have the heart to cancel. Post-Alden acquisition, the Tribune is way too full of news about the suburbs with Pioneer Press & other suburban paper bylines. It's not that the reporting or writing is subpar--it's not--but i'm not interested in reading about Elgin or the suburbs on the North Shore or south or west of the city. I haven't read the papers today (yet), but yesterday i "read" both in under 10 minutes. Just as there's room & need for a 3rd political party, there's room for an in-depth city paper.
I liked (almost) ALL of the visual Tweets today. The expression on the kid's face in the "bump" photo was the reason why I chose that visual Tweet over the "glass half full" Tweet. (Although Catercrombie *was* excellent.)
Thank you, Eric, for publishing the story of John W. Fountain’s departure from the Sun-Times, and especially the link to the Chicago Crusader. I particularly liked the quote Mr. Fountain posted to his cubicle: “Never Internalize Their Disrespect.” That concept is critical for members of all minority groups that are vilified and marginalized in our culture if we are to thrive. And it’s difficult. When kids are little, they pick up and learn the structure and values and beliefs of the culture in which they grow up, including that culture’s deeply ingrained feelings toward its minority groups. To learn not to accept deeply ingrained parts of the culture in which one grows up is hard. And when you realize that you have to do that, it requires you, on some level, always to be an outsider, to be a member of the community who is, in very important ways, not a member.
eric, for this week's 'Ya gotta see these tweets!' poll, i wish you had offered the option 'None of the above'. i realize humor is quite personal - and i personally didn't like any of these tweets - no acctg for taste, right? and i am a big fan of the 'Ya gotta see these tweets!' section. so, you keep trying, i'll keep reading, and expect there will be some/many visual tweets in the future which tickle my funnybone.
‘” It was a dealbreaker for me because as a writer who happens to be a Black man, native Chicagoan and West Sider, it has always been clear to me that my voice in journalism, especially here at home, and especially as a columnist, offers a unique perspective and voice. And that voice must always be my own — the way I speak, the way I tell the story, my words. Not an editor's. She wouldn't budge. She wouldn't listen to reason and she was downright belligerent and disrespectful to me not just as a writer, and not just as one of the Sun-Times' most decorated columnists, but to me as a human being. She left me no choice.’” -- John W. Fountain
Perhaps accepting responsibility for the fight, Fountain could work somewhere that people are sympathetic with his cause – it seems like he is on a bad racial trip and possibly overly protective of his own writing and image; but I do think that it can be quite troubling when someone structurally modifies a piece of writing, especially in a professional editor/writer relationship. Who wants their work revised, especially by a determined editor? Nobody. On the other hand, what editor wants a writer with a seeming hidden agenda, which appears like it could be the case here. Be that as it may, it seems to me that editors are allowed a lot of liberty with revisions; yet, is a tiff with an editor really worth a good job? My understanding is that legalized slavery, in the historical sense, ended 160 years ago – yet culturally, freely moving on has been difficult. Maybe we can be grateful for what we have and make the best of the opportunities that come our way.
Well, I *value* a determined editor. That is, as my friend Lee Bey put it (and Neil Steinberg memorialized it), someone who can read my work like s/he hates me. https://www.everygoddamnday.com/2018/02/read-it-like-you-hate-me.html
The Fountain thing is bizarre. It sounds like they both felt disrespected, but this presentation makes Fountain seem the more reasonable of the two. I'm no columnist or journalist, but I would have guessed that columnists, especially those of long-standing, were treated with a pretty light touch, with deference toward tone, style, and content choices, absent some major concern (which this didn't seem to present). Am I wrong?
Yes, editors give columnists more leeway, especially if they are long-timers. But editor is ultimately responsible and has final say. Fountain seems to be picking a fight.
I wonder if Fountian and Kho had an opportunity to build an in-person relationship? A working relationship that is entirely in text or on the phone would be more prone to misunderstandings, particularly with respect to issues that triggered emotions. Even big egos can generally 'bump heads' in person better than remotely. I assume that Kho also sensed condescension and disrespect in order to react as she did. Too bad that they couldn't sort it out.
Isn't there somebody higher up in the newspaper hierarchy who could have mediated this disagreement before it reached the level of acrimony between Fountain and Kho that forced him to leave the Sun-Times?
I don’t get the kid pic. Caption sounds like a loser in one of those “write a caption for this photo” contest.
Yes, I agree. Charlie Meyerson hits the mark for me (https://www.everygoddamnday.com/2018/02/read-it-like-you-hate-me.html) in the sense that the "read my work like s/he hates me" attitude leads to a detachment of the editor from the writer's aplomb, necessary if any critical objectivity in the editing process is to exist. It seems to me that the focus is on the writer's stated positions, arguments, stories, etc. with an eye toward improving them, which takes a measure of intellectual detachment coming from the editor and his/her work. Like a surgeon performing open heart surgery, it isn't the person’s vanity that is on the operating table -- making his/her cameo appearance -- but it is the surgeon's clinical work that determines success or failure, life or death. If the work is bad, then the patient is sorely out of luck! Fontaine is better served not through egoism but through literary skill.