Your back and forth with Nick regarding pro-Hamas shutdowns reads like exchanging views with J6 participants or their advocates. People holding extreme views didn’t fall into them with logic and they won’t be dissuaded using logic. This is how we get violence.
I'm really surprised the people in the cars right up against the anti-Semitic loons blocking the expressway didn't just move forward slowly & push those Jew hating assholes out of the way!
The people who protested by blocking roads are, in my view mistaken as to their tactics, but they are in great part neither pro-Hamas nor anti-semitic, still less loons. I deplore the violent rhetoric used against them. That is on general grounds--the decline of societies caused by the followers of "strongmen" from Mussolini onwards is always accompaned by violent rhetoric against despised groups that escalates into unspeakable violence. Also on specific grounds, are Senator Cotton and his like really advocating the running over of protestors as was done by the fine people in Charlotte?
The people whose names "sound like fonts" actually have names that sound like typefaces. To sound like fonts they would need to be Ruth Roman, Giuseppe Italic, or Mary Bold.
I was one of those “prisoners” in the mess at O’Hare, just trying to get my daughter back to school, then make an hour’s drive to help make arrangements for my Dad’s funeral. Look, I love living in a country that cherishes freedom to protest, but please don’t compare these performative, disruptive sideshows to the Civil Rights movement of the 60s. Heck, don’t even compare them to good-faith labor actions. If I can’t make a flight because unfairly treated airport employees are picketing for fair treatment, I’d grumble but honk my horn in solidarity because they are putting the pressure on the folks who deserve it — the airport bosses themselves. Monday struck me as brave laziness—a low-stakes risky but easy way to get attention. I, too, want peace in the Middle East. Give us a way to help that happen, not a made-for-the-cameras event, whose only lasting effect will be grumbling and derision from people who lack the power to change the system.
"It has worked for thousands of years. Especially during the civil rights movement. "
Is that true, though? The civil rights movement engaged in tactics directly related to attacking segregation. The Freedom Rides, the sit-ins at lunch counters, the Montgomery bus boycott, bear no resemblance whatsoever to blocking access to airports. Others were not prevented from riding buses or eating at lunch counters, no one was prevented from traveling or going to school or shopping, etc. Nick says the blockade was "meant to infuriate". That is not what the civil rights movement aimed to do. It may have been a consequence, as people faced their own racism, but it was not the goal.
I'm putting up another song of the week nomination. And this will be pretty obscure.
I happened to get to know about a group of musicians who formed a record label collective in Manchester, UK after a chance meeting with a troubadour named Al Baker in a music club in Harlem where I was celebrating having won money earlier that day as a contestant on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
This was another artist on that label. I love this song. The lyrics are very 20-something in the way you start to look at life and think about all those things you said you wanted to be as a kid, and if you can still do those things. It resonates with me because so many times you look at your life and think, "is this it? This is all there is?" You think back to all those big dreams you had in life and didn't do.
The video was really well done.
I took the song to my guitar teacher at Old Town School of Folk Music, Steve Leavitt, and he loved it too. He created a chart (after some guidance from the songwriter Becca through email) and we learned the song in class, and he added to his repertoire of songs. I recorded the class playing it and posted to YouTube and sent it to Becca. She really loved that a group of people in Chicago learned her song.
Why didn't police just arrest the protesters immediately? I didn't watch a whole lot of footage, but it doesn't seem like there were a lot of them. Were they even outnumbered by the police? Was the thinking that it's the better part of P.R. and conflict avoidance to just let them tire out? I get that in relation to, say, you're still in the park after closing time. I don't get that when, as you say, people are prisoners in their cars.
A baseball nit to pick: The “modern” era began in 1901 not 1900. I wish that was because baseball recognized the 20th Century began on Jan. 1, 1901, since a century has 100 years and there was no Year 0. But it really was just coincidental since 1901 was when the present American League was formed, joining the older National League as the “major leagues.” Arthur Clarke and Stanley Kubrick DID recognize this; otherwise we would have had “2000: A Space Odyssey.”
Times have changed in Chicago since I left a few decades ago. Back then, the story wouldn't have been about protesters blocking traffic. No. It would have been about the deaths and serious injuries suffered by protesters who got ran over by people on their way to O'Hare airport.
Completely agree with you about the protestors blocking access to O'Hare. Am also constantly surprised how none of the pro-Palestinian protestors have any comment on the horrendous actions of Hamas that started this whole ugly thing.
You note that refusal by Jewish leaders to participate in Mayor Johnson’s anti-semitism roundtable is counterproductive. And under most circumstances, I might agree with you. But here’s the problem: Many Jews understand these “ceasefire” resolutions to be part of a well-structured Palestinian propaganda campaign that characterizes Israel—and by extension, the worldwide Jewish population—as a uniformly, foundationally bad actor. They are performative and accomplish nothing to help the unfortunate Gazans who are largely victims of Hamas—not, as so many like to claim, Israel. But they DO foster anti-Semitism. The time for Mayor Johnson to seriously address the discomfort of Jewish leaders and lawmakers was BEFORE casting his vote, not after. I don’t know the man personally, and I doubt he is anti-Semitic per se, but his support of the resolution makes it clear that he is fundamentally ignorant of the drivers of anti-Semitism and its pernicious impact on Jews everywhere. His attempt to reach out was a day late and a dollar short: weak sauce, in my opinion, and deserved the slap-down it got.
I think Eric is a genius. But I am biased as I so often agree with him. The Palestinian protesters will end up killing their own cause. They think they will change people's minds by disrupting their lives. They are ignoring certain items. Many in this country will never support Muslims no matter what Israel does. They remember things like hostage taking in Iran and 9-11. That's not a defense of Israel. That's just the way it is. People that get upset enough will simply contact their politicians and make demands of their own such as stricter penalties for those obstructing the lives of others. Rather than change people's minds, they will harden people against them who didn't agree with them but will now choose to act against them. Yes, the civil rights marches brought some positive results. But it's not a good comparison. Many in this country recognized that there were classes of people not getting the rights and treatment they deserved under our laws. Whether one agrees or disagrees, there is going to be a lot more sympathy for the Jews killed in the raid than Gazans. Very few are going to defend the rights of Arab terrorist groups to get their revenge in blood. Oh, and by the way- talking about disrupting the economy at a time of high inflation and people struggling to meet items like housing costs might not be a wise way to win sympathy.
“Blocking the way to O’Hare is no way to win hearts and minds.” It is also a poor way to reduce unwanted feral cats, but neither of those things are goals. The goal is to feel better by doing something that reduces personal feelings of frustration and impotence. These people are mad and outraged and in pain and they feel a little better by spreading that.
The protesters blocking O'Hare really aren't thinking this thing out too well. If someone, say has a flight booked for a trip to Europe and misses it, therefore losing thousands of dollars they're not going to care one bit about their cause. Better off picking maybe Lake Shore Drive or something different where there is mild disruption but not screwing innocent people. I believe the protesters in 1968 were not hoping for Nixon to win the election but that's how it turned out. All those people they are inconveniencing do vote. Might want to remember that, because they won't forget.
I would like to focus in on the role of the media concerning these protests. Setting aside the content for a moment, I expect these protesters wanted to get their message out to a huge national audience.
I think they may have considered or even tried “polite” protests in designated places with little or no coverage.
To get their message across, they realized we have to manipulate the media to give us maximum coverage. Thus the road closures etc, make the protests easy to video tape, no violence so the media will feel safe covering it but at the same time piss off large numbers of people so that it is “news”.
Eric and others say there may be a better way to protest to raise their issues, okay let’s hear about it.
If the protests were polite and friendly….no media coverage. These folks wanted to stick their protest in America’s face and with the media’s help got what they wanted.
Remember some years ago when “streaking” at sports events was all the rage. As the media covered these events, more streakers in more sporting events seemed to show up. They got to watch themselves on TV and tell their friends to watch as well. As the media switched off covering these events, it appears they went out of style and this form of “ media event” is no longer common.
I think the media gave the protesters what they wanted, message delivered to a huge audience. Do you think this coverage will incentivize them to similar protests in the future? I think so.
Your back and forth with Nick regarding pro-Hamas shutdowns reads like exchanging views with J6 participants or their advocates. People holding extreme views didn’t fall into them with logic and they won’t be dissuaded using logic. This is how we get violence.
I'm really surprised the people in the cars right up against the anti-Semitic loons blocking the expressway didn't just move forward slowly & push those Jew hating assholes out of the way!
The people who protested by blocking roads are, in my view mistaken as to their tactics, but they are in great part neither pro-Hamas nor anti-semitic, still less loons. I deplore the violent rhetoric used against them. That is on general grounds--the decline of societies caused by the followers of "strongmen" from Mussolini onwards is always accompaned by violent rhetoric against despised groups that escalates into unspeakable violence. Also on specific grounds, are Senator Cotton and his like really advocating the running over of protestors as was done by the fine people in Charlotte?
The people whose names "sound like fonts" actually have names that sound like typefaces. To sound like fonts they would need to be Ruth Roman, Giuseppe Italic, or Mary Bold.
I was one of those “prisoners” in the mess at O’Hare, just trying to get my daughter back to school, then make an hour’s drive to help make arrangements for my Dad’s funeral. Look, I love living in a country that cherishes freedom to protest, but please don’t compare these performative, disruptive sideshows to the Civil Rights movement of the 60s. Heck, don’t even compare them to good-faith labor actions. If I can’t make a flight because unfairly treated airport employees are picketing for fair treatment, I’d grumble but honk my horn in solidarity because they are putting the pressure on the folks who deserve it — the airport bosses themselves. Monday struck me as brave laziness—a low-stakes risky but easy way to get attention. I, too, want peace in the Middle East. Give us a way to help that happen, not a made-for-the-cameras event, whose only lasting effect will be grumbling and derision from people who lack the power to change the system.
"It has worked for thousands of years. Especially during the civil rights movement. "
Is that true, though? The civil rights movement engaged in tactics directly related to attacking segregation. The Freedom Rides, the sit-ins at lunch counters, the Montgomery bus boycott, bear no resemblance whatsoever to blocking access to airports. Others were not prevented from riding buses or eating at lunch counters, no one was prevented from traveling or going to school or shopping, etc. Nick says the blockade was "meant to infuriate". That is not what the civil rights movement aimed to do. It may have been a consequence, as people faced their own racism, but it was not the goal.
I'm putting up another song of the week nomination. And this will be pretty obscure.
I happened to get to know about a group of musicians who formed a record label collective in Manchester, UK after a chance meeting with a troubadour named Al Baker in a music club in Harlem where I was celebrating having won money earlier that day as a contestant on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
This was another artist on that label. I love this song. The lyrics are very 20-something in the way you start to look at life and think about all those things you said you wanted to be as a kid, and if you can still do those things. It resonates with me because so many times you look at your life and think, "is this it? This is all there is?" You think back to all those big dreams you had in life and didn't do.
The video was really well done.
I took the song to my guitar teacher at Old Town School of Folk Music, Steve Leavitt, and he loved it too. He created a chart (after some guidance from the songwriter Becca through email) and we learned the song in class, and he added to his repertoire of songs. I recorded the class playing it and posted to YouTube and sent it to Becca. She really loved that a group of people in Chicago learned her song.
https://youtu.be/5s3xk_ZEVt0?si=cPnZg5Ki6BoTh5yE
Like I said, obscure. 13K views on YouTube over 13 years is almost nothing.
Why didn't police just arrest the protesters immediately? I didn't watch a whole lot of footage, but it doesn't seem like there were a lot of them. Were they even outnumbered by the police? Was the thinking that it's the better part of P.R. and conflict avoidance to just let them tire out? I get that in relation to, say, you're still in the park after closing time. I don't get that when, as you say, people are prisoners in their cars.
A baseball nit to pick: The “modern” era began in 1901 not 1900. I wish that was because baseball recognized the 20th Century began on Jan. 1, 1901, since a century has 100 years and there was no Year 0. But it really was just coincidental since 1901 was when the present American League was formed, joining the older National League as the “major leagues.” Arthur Clarke and Stanley Kubrick DID recognize this; otherwise we would have had “2000: A Space Odyssey.”
Times have changed in Chicago since I left a few decades ago. Back then, the story wouldn't have been about protesters blocking traffic. No. It would have been about the deaths and serious injuries suffered by protesters who got ran over by people on their way to O'Hare airport.
Completely agree with you about the protestors blocking access to O'Hare. Am also constantly surprised how none of the pro-Palestinian protestors have any comment on the horrendous actions of Hamas that started this whole ugly thing.
You note that refusal by Jewish leaders to participate in Mayor Johnson’s anti-semitism roundtable is counterproductive. And under most circumstances, I might agree with you. But here’s the problem: Many Jews understand these “ceasefire” resolutions to be part of a well-structured Palestinian propaganda campaign that characterizes Israel—and by extension, the worldwide Jewish population—as a uniformly, foundationally bad actor. They are performative and accomplish nothing to help the unfortunate Gazans who are largely victims of Hamas—not, as so many like to claim, Israel. But they DO foster anti-Semitism. The time for Mayor Johnson to seriously address the discomfort of Jewish leaders and lawmakers was BEFORE casting his vote, not after. I don’t know the man personally, and I doubt he is anti-Semitic per se, but his support of the resolution makes it clear that he is fundamentally ignorant of the drivers of anti-Semitism and its pernicious impact on Jews everywhere. His attempt to reach out was a day late and a dollar short: weak sauce, in my opinion, and deserved the slap-down it got.
I think Eric is a genius. But I am biased as I so often agree with him. The Palestinian protesters will end up killing their own cause. They think they will change people's minds by disrupting their lives. They are ignoring certain items. Many in this country will never support Muslims no matter what Israel does. They remember things like hostage taking in Iran and 9-11. That's not a defense of Israel. That's just the way it is. People that get upset enough will simply contact their politicians and make demands of their own such as stricter penalties for those obstructing the lives of others. Rather than change people's minds, they will harden people against them who didn't agree with them but will now choose to act against them. Yes, the civil rights marches brought some positive results. But it's not a good comparison. Many in this country recognized that there were classes of people not getting the rights and treatment they deserved under our laws. Whether one agrees or disagrees, there is going to be a lot more sympathy for the Jews killed in the raid than Gazans. Very few are going to defend the rights of Arab terrorist groups to get their revenge in blood. Oh, and by the way- talking about disrupting the economy at a time of high inflation and people struggling to meet items like housing costs might not be a wise way to win sympathy.
“Blocking the way to O’Hare is no way to win hearts and minds.” It is also a poor way to reduce unwanted feral cats, but neither of those things are goals. The goal is to feel better by doing something that reduces personal feelings of frustration and impotence. These people are mad and outraged and in pain and they feel a little better by spreading that.
The protesters blocking O'Hare really aren't thinking this thing out too well. If someone, say has a flight booked for a trip to Europe and misses it, therefore losing thousands of dollars they're not going to care one bit about their cause. Better off picking maybe Lake Shore Drive or something different where there is mild disruption but not screwing innocent people. I believe the protesters in 1968 were not hoping for Nixon to win the election but that's how it turned out. All those people they are inconveniencing do vote. Might want to remember that, because they won't forget.
I would like to focus in on the role of the media concerning these protests. Setting aside the content for a moment, I expect these protesters wanted to get their message out to a huge national audience.
I think they may have considered or even tried “polite” protests in designated places with little or no coverage.
To get their message across, they realized we have to manipulate the media to give us maximum coverage. Thus the road closures etc, make the protests easy to video tape, no violence so the media will feel safe covering it but at the same time piss off large numbers of people so that it is “news”.
Eric and others say there may be a better way to protest to raise their issues, okay let’s hear about it.
If the protests were polite and friendly….no media coverage. These folks wanted to stick their protest in America’s face and with the media’s help got what they wanted.
Remember some years ago when “streaking” at sports events was all the rage. As the media covered these events, more streakers in more sporting events seemed to show up. They got to watch themselves on TV and tell their friends to watch as well. As the media switched off covering these events, it appears they went out of style and this form of “ media event” is no longer common.
I think the media gave the protesters what they wanted, message delivered to a huge audience. Do you think this coverage will incentivize them to similar protests in the future? I think so.