I’m a somewhat practicing Catholic, and it’s not always easy. Regarding the Church’s position on human composting, my first thought (and I am far from being a biblical scholar) was the quote from Genesis, “Remember thou art dust, and to dust thou shall return.”
Your comment "sins come and go" is spot on with the Catholic Church Michael! I'm a recovering Catholic (8 years Catholic grade school, four years Catholic high school and a degree from a Catholic university).
Over the centuries, the Catholic church has been the unequaled empire at promulgating doctrine and rules for self-benefit. The institution of mandatory celibacy to recapture all the accumulated wealth of powerful Bishops upon their death (no legal heirs), the invention of Purgatory with selling of indulgences (a get-out-of-Purgatory-free-card) to fund construction of the Vatican, excommunicating Martin Luther for the grievous sin of translating the Bible into German, a common language instead of either Latin or Greek for the very first time so that the common person could read it themselves, etc. Not too many decades ago, the teaching was that babies born before being baptized were not able to go to Heaven but instead went to a place the church invented called Limbo, but now that has changed and unbaptized babies apparently can go to Heaven according to the church. And along with cremation, marrying outside of the Catholic religion was also considered sinful and the person was to be shunned.
And here's my favorite contemporary one. St Patrick's Day this year falls on a Friday during Lent, and Catholics are required to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent (it used to be every Friday when I was a kid growing up until that changed to just Lent). But each diocese is ruled by a bishop who has the authority to grant an exemption from the rules. So this Saint Patrick's day, Catholics in some dioceses where the Bishops have issued an exemption are able to lawfully consume their corned beef, but in other dioceses it is strictly forbidden and considered a mortal sin that will damn your soul to eternal hell. That makes a lot of sense, right?
I offer these not as an attack on Catholicism as I have many family and friends who identify as Catholic. But rather, to support my main point that the Catholic religion are the masters at making and changing the rules to suit them at the time, and now they are drawing a line in the sand at human composting despite the Scripture verses that would seem to entirely bless this. Oh well.
I am still a practicing Catholic (12 years of Catholic education in elementary school and high school). My wife's Irish Catholic grandfather left me with this nugget of wisdom about the Catholic church and its hierarchy: "Never let fallible human beings (the Catholic Church) prevent you from engaging in your personal relationship with God."
Your wife's grandfather sounds like a very good and wise man Jay. He is exactly correct - denominational religion never brought anyone to Heaven, nor anything we could ever do to "earn" it. But as is explicitly stated repeatedly in the Gospel and other New Testament books, it is only our personal faith in the Lord and accepting the victory that His grace has already won that brings us Salvation.
I'm an ex-Catholic who went to Catholic schools from first grade until I graduated from college. And I have to say that a lot of what you said sounds extremely anti-Catholic. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The special dispensations for corned beef on St. Patrick's Day is not a big deal. The Friday fast during Lent has never been a religious doctrine, more a tradition that people followed (and I grew up with meatless Fridays all year round, which changed to Lent only when I was a kid). And the change about unbaptised babies was an admission that the previous stance was in error. That is, they realized it was foolish and that of course an unbaptised baby was never damned and they said so. So they grew and changed. Changing is a sign of growth. Never changing is stagnation. There is definitely corruption and flaws but the examples you cite are not among them.
Thank you for keeping this topic on our radar. When you first wrote of this bill, I contacted our state representative to vote yes on moving it forward and urged everyone in my family to do the same. I'm at the stage in my life where part of my estate planning included calculating the cost of shipping my body to a compost-friendly state. Would love to continue my biological journey where I was born and raised. Your "how dare they" reference to the entities that oppose the bill purely for greed is right on. Both traditional funeral providers and the catholic church have historically grown rich and comfortable fleecing the gullible for useless "services."
I am willing to believe that the Church has moral interests. But from a business perspective, I have no idea why either would oppose composting. They just need to adapt and tailor their services. Human composting cost is about the same as cremation. It requires investment in the facilities and operating costs. As with any business, this will have start up risks, but they seem very manageable to me. I can envision cemeteries offering memorial gardens with plaques to honor contributors. Churches, funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries can all continue to provide services around the process. My guess is that we will eventually get a law with 'protections' similar to the crematorium regulations.
"But how dare these prissy busybodies impose their beliefs on others when it comes to such a personal act?"
Imposing their beliefs on others? The Catholic church? The guys who put the Latin in Latin America? They're kind of old hands at this.
Still, after watching them rail in righteous indignation about abortion, gay marriage and women's rights, it's kind of pitiable to watch them go out on a limb on a relatively non-divisive issue like this. Like watching Sammy Sosa play kickball on a team of third graders.
Follow the money. The Catholic Church and funeral directors do not want to lose the money involved in traditional masses, wakes, burials and plots of land.
Hey I’ll be first in line to have my corpse turned to soil (especially if I’ll be used to grow the turf at that new Bears stadium), but I deeply appreciate the counter-arguments; we will need such voices in our ears to balance and measure our ever-growing ability to manipulate human biology.
Only had time to look at your lead about human composting. I think I commented on this when you wrote about it. And totally agree on your comments about church issues. We actually do compost at our place and have for many years and purchase large quantities as we need to for the produce we grow. It would be a great honor to at some point be placed at a spot on our property to nourish the plants I have tried to support for the past 30 years we've lived here. I totally support this bill. Yes, Mary--dust to dust.
Guy Clark had the right idea. I'll wanna be in the garden pushing up home grown tomaters. Knowing that I'll be irritating a prissy busybody will be the icing on the cake. Or the salt on the caprese, more like.
Concerns that composting "degrades the human person and dishonors the life that was lived by that person" is fairly rich coming from the Catholic Church.
Exactly under what authority is this Daniel Welter making this “decision”? He appears to have no active office in the Catholic Church. He does not quote any law or directive by the Pope.
In regards to "Racism is discrimination on steroids" I can agree. As for social favorings regarding race, my perspective from the early 60's was that whites did not live in a black society, but rather the reverse. To be sure, societal evolution is still happening, but true to its nature, evolution is a slow process. I don't believe my past perspective is as pronounced now as then, but pockets of resistance to change still exist.
Regardless of what they're trying to distance themselves from now, the views of both candidates have been fairly clear. At a time of historically low poverty and unemployment rates, here's a look at Johnson's take on looting 2 years ago in a WGN interview:
I voted for Sophia King in Round 1. Vallas was in the middle of the pack. Johnson was on the bottom of my list, and remains there.
The larger question is how much power the Mayor actually will have with implementing said views. This isn't the Daley years. Either candidate can expect fierce opposition.
My mother strongly wants a green burial. So she cannot be buried next to her husband in the plot she bought in the cemetery of the Catholic Church in which she served and raised five children. All due to this stupid position of the Church. They claim their stance is to honor the person's life, but they are degrading and dishonoring her life and her wishes as she is a firm believer in protecting the environment, which aligns with the Pope's view of respecting & protecting the planet. Instead the Church would force her (well, her children) to pay for toxic formaldehyde for embalming, creation of a concrete vault (one of the *worst* environmental pollutants), use of a casket containing metal, wood, and non-biodegradable plastic, and taking up land in a cemetery that can never be used for any other purpose.
So instead of 'returning to dust' the Church wants to force people to further degrade our planet. I cannot believe the Pope supports this; it's that particular form of arrogance of American Catholic bishops.
I have my estate planning documents telling my survivors that I would like my body to be composted if it is legal to do so in the state where I die. Composting is environmentally friendlier that cremation which puts millions of pounds of carbon dioxide into the air each year. Plus I feel that there is something beautiful in becoming soil that can provide a place for other life and life-sustaining plants to grow.
I’m a somewhat practicing Catholic, and it’s not always easy. Regarding the Church’s position on human composting, my first thought (and I am far from being a biblical scholar) was the quote from Genesis, “Remember thou art dust, and to dust thou shall return.”
Came here to say this. "From dust you came, and to dust you shall return."
Cremation used to be forbidden to Catholics. Now it isn't (my mother, a daily Mass goer, was cremated). Sins come and go ...
Your comment "sins come and go" is spot on with the Catholic Church Michael! I'm a recovering Catholic (8 years Catholic grade school, four years Catholic high school and a degree from a Catholic university).
Over the centuries, the Catholic church has been the unequaled empire at promulgating doctrine and rules for self-benefit. The institution of mandatory celibacy to recapture all the accumulated wealth of powerful Bishops upon their death (no legal heirs), the invention of Purgatory with selling of indulgences (a get-out-of-Purgatory-free-card) to fund construction of the Vatican, excommunicating Martin Luther for the grievous sin of translating the Bible into German, a common language instead of either Latin or Greek for the very first time so that the common person could read it themselves, etc. Not too many decades ago, the teaching was that babies born before being baptized were not able to go to Heaven but instead went to a place the church invented called Limbo, but now that has changed and unbaptized babies apparently can go to Heaven according to the church. And along with cremation, marrying outside of the Catholic religion was also considered sinful and the person was to be shunned.
And here's my favorite contemporary one. St Patrick's Day this year falls on a Friday during Lent, and Catholics are required to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent (it used to be every Friday when I was a kid growing up until that changed to just Lent). But each diocese is ruled by a bishop who has the authority to grant an exemption from the rules. So this Saint Patrick's day, Catholics in some dioceses where the Bishops have issued an exemption are able to lawfully consume their corned beef, but in other dioceses it is strictly forbidden and considered a mortal sin that will damn your soul to eternal hell. That makes a lot of sense, right?
I offer these not as an attack on Catholicism as I have many family and friends who identify as Catholic. But rather, to support my main point that the Catholic religion are the masters at making and changing the rules to suit them at the time, and now they are drawing a line in the sand at human composting despite the Scripture verses that would seem to entirely bless this. Oh well.
I am still a practicing Catholic (12 years of Catholic education in elementary school and high school). My wife's Irish Catholic grandfather left me with this nugget of wisdom about the Catholic church and its hierarchy: "Never let fallible human beings (the Catholic Church) prevent you from engaging in your personal relationship with God."
Your wife's grandfather sounds like a very good and wise man Jay. He is exactly correct - denominational religion never brought anyone to Heaven, nor anything we could ever do to "earn" it. But as is explicitly stated repeatedly in the Gospel and other New Testament books, it is only our personal faith in the Lord and accepting the victory that His grace has already won that brings us Salvation.
He sounds like my Irish Catholic dad: "The Church is the people, not the bishops."
I'm an ex-Catholic who went to Catholic schools from first grade until I graduated from college. And I have to say that a lot of what you said sounds extremely anti-Catholic. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The special dispensations for corned beef on St. Patrick's Day is not a big deal. The Friday fast during Lent has never been a religious doctrine, more a tradition that people followed (and I grew up with meatless Fridays all year round, which changed to Lent only when I was a kid). And the change about unbaptised babies was an admission that the previous stance was in error. That is, they realized it was foolish and that of course an unbaptised baby was never damned and they said so. So they grew and changed. Changing is a sign of growth. Never changing is stagnation. There is definitely corruption and flaws but the examples you cite are not among them.
Laughed until I cried. Uncle Duke is amazing.
Thank you for keeping this topic on our radar. When you first wrote of this bill, I contacted our state representative to vote yes on moving it forward and urged everyone in my family to do the same. I'm at the stage in my life where part of my estate planning included calculating the cost of shipping my body to a compost-friendly state. Would love to continue my biological journey where I was born and raised. Your "how dare they" reference to the entities that oppose the bill purely for greed is right on. Both traditional funeral providers and the catholic church have historically grown rich and comfortable fleecing the gullible for useless "services."
I am willing to believe that the Church has moral interests. But from a business perspective, I have no idea why either would oppose composting. They just need to adapt and tailor their services. Human composting cost is about the same as cremation. It requires investment in the facilities and operating costs. As with any business, this will have start up risks, but they seem very manageable to me. I can envision cemeteries offering memorial gardens with plaques to honor contributors. Churches, funeral homes, crematoriums, and cemeteries can all continue to provide services around the process. My guess is that we will eventually get a law with 'protections' similar to the crematorium regulations.
"But how dare these prissy busybodies impose their beliefs on others when it comes to such a personal act?"
Imposing their beliefs on others? The Catholic church? The guys who put the Latin in Latin America? They're kind of old hands at this.
Still, after watching them rail in righteous indignation about abortion, gay marriage and women's rights, it's kind of pitiable to watch them go out on a limb on a relatively non-divisive issue like this. Like watching Sammy Sosa play kickball on a team of third graders.
Follow the money. The Catholic Church and funeral directors do not want to lose the money involved in traditional masses, wakes, burials and plots of land.
I know that I’m the dumb dog here. But can someone explain that tweet. I truly don’t understand it.
Both dogs are appearing to look through the window, but the blinds are closed for the dog on the right.
Ohhhhh. See I thought the dog on the right was looking at a carton of yogurt. So had no idea why that was “dumb”
Hey I’ll be first in line to have my corpse turned to soil (especially if I’ll be used to grow the turf at that new Bears stadium), but I deeply appreciate the counter-arguments; we will need such voices in our ears to balance and measure our ever-growing ability to manipulate human biology.
Only had time to look at your lead about human composting. I think I commented on this when you wrote about it. And totally agree on your comments about church issues. We actually do compost at our place and have for many years and purchase large quantities as we need to for the produce we grow. It would be a great honor to at some point be placed at a spot on our property to nourish the plants I have tried to support for the past 30 years we've lived here. I totally support this bill. Yes, Mary--dust to dust.
Guy Clark had the right idea. I'll wanna be in the garden pushing up home grown tomaters. Knowing that I'll be irritating a prissy busybody will be the icing on the cake. Or the salt on the caprese, more like.
Say Eric, can we only watch the debate live, or will it be available to stream later too?
I'm pretty sure it can be watched after the fact; that's the way with most FB streams.
Concerns that composting "degrades the human person and dishonors the life that was lived by that person" is fairly rich coming from the Catholic Church.
Exactly under what authority is this Daniel Welter making this “decision”? He appears to have no active office in the Catholic Church. He does not quote any law or directive by the Pope.
Looks to me like a personal opinion.
In regards to "Racism is discrimination on steroids" I can agree. As for social favorings regarding race, my perspective from the early 60's was that whites did not live in a black society, but rather the reverse. To be sure, societal evolution is still happening, but true to its nature, evolution is a slow process. I don't believe my past perspective is as pronounced now as then, but pockets of resistance to change still exist.
Regardless of what they're trying to distance themselves from now, the views of both candidates have been fairly clear. At a time of historically low poverty and unemployment rates, here's a look at Johnson's take on looting 2 years ago in a WGN interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VadFYX0xSo4
I voted for Sophia King in Round 1. Vallas was in the middle of the pack. Johnson was on the bottom of my list, and remains there.
The larger question is how much power the Mayor actually will have with implementing said views. This isn't the Daley years. Either candidate can expect fierce opposition.
https://ericzorn.com/index.php/2023/03/20/brandon-johnson-on-policing-circa-2020/
My mother strongly wants a green burial. So she cannot be buried next to her husband in the plot she bought in the cemetery of the Catholic Church in which she served and raised five children. All due to this stupid position of the Church. They claim their stance is to honor the person's life, but they are degrading and dishonoring her life and her wishes as she is a firm believer in protecting the environment, which aligns with the Pope's view of respecting & protecting the planet. Instead the Church would force her (well, her children) to pay for toxic formaldehyde for embalming, creation of a concrete vault (one of the *worst* environmental pollutants), use of a casket containing metal, wood, and non-biodegradable plastic, and taking up land in a cemetery that can never be used for any other purpose.
So instead of 'returning to dust' the Church wants to force people to further degrade our planet. I cannot believe the Pope supports this; it's that particular form of arrogance of American Catholic bishops.
I have my estate planning documents telling my survivors that I would like my body to be composted if it is legal to do so in the state where I die. Composting is environmentally friendlier that cremation which puts millions of pounds of carbon dioxide into the air each year. Plus I feel that there is something beautiful in becoming soil that can provide a place for other life and life-sustaining plants to grow.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/is-cremation-environmentally-friendly-heres-the-science