It is good to call for peaceful protests, but it will only take a small number of people to show up for mayhem to make their actions the headlines. I am not sure what protesters who want to keep it peaceful should do about that.
A reminder of what happened during the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis — certain people destroying property and setting fires were shown to be white supremacist agitators intent on creating a narrative of violent protestors to move the focus away from the real story.
I had not heard that, so I asked Grok (X AI) and it confirmed your statement. I like to be fair, so since I was prepared to challenge this fact if necessary I will confirm it instead.
I was thinking that if I was part of Trump's regime it would be so easy to send just one or two people to join a crowd of demonstrators, then hurl a rock through a shop window or car or at the police line.
I was googling it and found this article from the time of George Floyd protests. It's very instructive:
"In rally after rally, people have observed that looting and destruction only began after police charged and beat a crowd, or fired tear gas or rubber bullets into it. In other cases, it can take just one act by a protester to light the spark. Given the chaotic nature of the protests, it’s probable that everyone being blamed for property damage has played some role."
It also describes several historical instances of regimes using provocateurs to infiltrate protests and escalate violence in order to justify an escalated response.
Edited to add this quote:
"It is a historical fact, as this episode illustrates, that law enforcement frequently infiltrates progressive political movements using agent provocateurs who urge others to engage in violence. It is also a historical fact that, more rarely, such provocateurs commit acts of violence themselves."
That was a ligit video, but it was previously "smashed" by a mostly peaceful protestor. There is video of that, too. The police were "clearing" the windshield so that they could see through it to move it from the scene...
"The cruiser's windshield was intact before officers left the intersection, but it was broken by the time they returned. Footage (archived) from RMG News, a network of journalists/videographers in LA, showed a hooded person stomping on the window of the cruiser on June 8 — identified by the identical license plate number, 1251352."
Agreed that it's the bad stuff and not the size of the peaceful crowds that will make the news. Which is why my fervent hope is the Chicago event Saturday will be as peaceful, and as well-attended, as the Women's and Science marches were during his first administration.
I'm pleased that the No Kings organizers specify nonviolence, and impressed that they've been offering training calls for event hosts and attendees about de-escalation of possible conflicts.
Think about the rants of the orange stain for a moment. If one us decided to go march, would it automatically mean we were paid professional protesters? The orange stain ignore that there are lots and lots of people that go to these things because they don't like the orange stain. Furthermore, the orange stain has never once proven that anything more than a miniscule number of people are paid professional organizers.
Chris Cuomo's monologue last night talked about China funding the groups organizing the protests such as CHIRLA and PSL. How much is true, I don't know. Regardless, agree that keeping bad elements from wreaking havoc is the biggest challenge to a peaceful protest:
It's like the Wuhan lab leak theory. Don't worry about the messenger, so much as the possibility that it's true. Same as Cuomo, the New York Times published a full investigation on Billionaire Neville Roy Singham, his connection to China and leftist radicals two years ago. It makes perfect sense that this guy would try to get involved with current protests. It's what he does: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html
While not diminishing the many people whose intention was peaceful protest, it is apparent with trucks pulling up to unload cases of expensive tactical masks that someone is organizing and funding people intending nonpeaceful actions.
Disagree. Anyone can show up and dump off supplies. It doesn't prove it has anything to do with the people that show up to march. I do agree with you that marches like this do attract those that show up just to cause trouble and don't even care what the cause it. They are called anarchists. It is not a new occurrence. Europe has dealt with it for decades. They are simply those that want to tear down society, regardless of the cause. The problem is the orange stain using them to label entire causes and legitimate protesters.
Hi Laurence - My assertion that there were preorganized well funded groups prepared to mobilize and cause mayhem does not in any way preclude that there were many, perhaps a good majority of peaceful protesters. But the fact that there was widespread vandalism, many cars including police vehicles fire bombed and burned and extensive looting in the downtown area reflects a very large-scale lawlessness that was allowed to continue by Mayor Bass and Governor Newsom until President Trump activated the National Guard to bring the situation under control.
Number one, you ignored your own message which was about professional organizers. Number two, allowed by the mayor and governor? That's total nonsense! You think they met before the march and said "Hey, when the bad stuff happens, we are simply going to let it?" The lawlessness was also not as great as shown on the news and Bass communicated with the National Guard and announced a curfew as soon as necessary. Furthermore, how much of the trouble happened only after the orange stain illegally decided to send in the National Guard? Come on David, the same thing happened in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention. Yes, things were thrown at police. But much of that was after CPD went rogue and attacked protesters and Daley announced "shoot to kill". It's not uncommon for ill-trained law enforcement to make things worse.
"Things were thrown at police". I believe that is a massive understatement of the real situation. There were literally dozens of mostly police cars totally trashed because they were being firebombed, with rocks and cinder blocks being thrown through the windows, all of which could easily have killed someone. As it was, police officers were injured. And there was very widespread vandalism and booting all throughout the business district. The situation was totally out of hand with the police unable or unauthorized to respond until the National Guard arrived on the scene after several nights of this dangerous lawlessness. If anything in my view, the police were overly constrained as I believe greater force should have been used on anyone fire bombing or pelting police with potentially lethal objects. To suggest that the arrival of National Guard troops in some way incited greater lawlessness is totally illogical. This was a page right out of Governor Walz's Playbook when he was very content to sit on his hands and about a good part of Minneapolis to burn for three nights before he finally called in the guard which then stopped the riots.
I lettered a sign to wear on my back: "PATRIOTIC [in red/white/blue] PEACEFUL PROTESTER". No guarantee, of course, but it does demonstrate my benevolent intent. Also, I'm tired of claims that real "patriots" mindlessly rubber-stamp everything a president says or does. Whether in parenting or citizenship, the people who really care make an effort to shape the finished product into the best it can become.
You're right, but I am also kind of right :) Igor is kind of a stock character so Fritz is an "Igor". Also Bela Lugosi played "Ygor" in "Son of Frankenstein".
Are we sure that Terry Moran didn’t do this on purpose? He’s 65, his contract was up. One of the advantages of being this age is the knowledge that you’re old enough to just walk away. For the last few years I’ve been close enough to retirement that I’ve almost been hoping that my boss will do something that I’ll be able to reply to with “fuck you, I quit”. Sadly, I have a good relationship with my boss.
Had the same thought- Terry had the FU money in his pocket and an excellent back up plan already in place. What better way to get attention to a new venture (especially by what is likely to be his key demo) than with a flamethrower?!? Also, having done it myself, it is extremely therapeutic and also fun! You can't even know how many envious former co-workers will call you later and thank you for saying what they could not.
I had an awful boss back in 2007, and one reason I would not be able to work for our president is because he reminds me of that boss. However my boss pissed off the wrong guy and was gone, and I’m like the cockroach who survived all the office warfare over the years.
Eric mentioned in the Mincing Rascals that he was part of a peaceful protest in Chicago recently that got little attention from media. I think that answers the question of why so many protests have agitators (whether planned or not). No one likes to complain and not get noticed.
I do believe though, that if you do protest for a cause you believe in you should be willing or prepared to get arrested.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about being prepared to be arrested. If my intent is simply to add my one more person to a peaceful rally with the message of opposing this administration -- which is a completely legal and constitutionally protected right -- and I have faith that Chicago police know that and have plenty of experience with big crowds, and I would never, ever engage in any violent or even provocative action, why should I expect to be arrested?
By prepared to be arrested I was thinking of the 1960s protests where Blacks sat at a Woolworth lunch counter. It was against the law and they were protesting that law. Not sure if it applies to the current case.
Ok, yes, I get that. Having the courage of one's convictions if one engages in civil disobedience. That's choosing to violate the law to make a point, and yes, of course expect to be arrested. But just participating in a peaceful protest shouldn't get anyone arrested because that's *absolutely* authoritarian behavior whether on the part of Chicago Police or Trump.
Regarding trusting mass media, I’m reminded that I was in college during the Iranian hostage crisis, and every day a bunch of us would head down to the lounge to watch Walter Cronkite give us the latest. He was trusted.
Nothing like a good tragedy to advance someone’s career. Many reporters who covered the JFK assassination also became household names. Like Dan Rather.
My wife got us tickets for the Mincing Rascals in Ottawa. I know Eric won’t be there, but if any of my fellow commenters will be there say hi. Anyone else going?
I don’t think any of Eric’s subscribers will be the ones throwing rocks or setting fires, but I do wish I could transfer his words directly into the brains of the mostly young, hormonal people who think any occasion is one for mayhem.
I used to be a young, hormonal person. If two or more people were doing something, it didn’t really matter what that something was, but I’d do it. So the trick is to not have the first two people do it. Then the followers will stay behaved.
Just a quick note to mention that the registration form for the obscene parade has no validity checks on any of the inputs, you can make up any random email (just use @[anything].com), phone and zip, they all go through without validation. I registered several rock stars that will unfortunately be too busy (and in some cases too deceased) to attend.
I tried to register Albert DiSalvo, the Boston Strangler, but you need a verification code they send to the phone to actually do it, so I won't be able to finish it.
"The 'clean sweep' ought to begin by giving this dangerously unqualified nutjob [RFK Jr.] the broom.” Eric, have you forgotten what decade we’re in? The more dangerous and unqualified the better these days. A new rallying cry: “I dare you to stay alive in 2025!"
I am thinking back to the Civil Rights marches of the '60s. MLK exhorted peaceful action over violence to effect change. It might have taken longer, but it worked.
Read Mike Royko. Chicagoans didn't care while the marches were in the suburbs. Everyone knew there would be problems when King and his people marched through Bridgeport.
Peaceful protest is good for the soul, but I remember Trump’s violent clearing out of the BLM protesters near the White House — too many folks still think “Those new curfew-ignoring hippies had it comin’” Large groups lose their sense of individual accountability, and with phone cameras everywhere, no indiscretion will go unnoticed. So, first sign of federal authority at a protest and I’d recommend a total retreat to use all of that energy on the few people that matter: those who have the legislative and financial power to change the course.
It is good to call for peaceful protests, but it will only take a small number of people to show up for mayhem to make their actions the headlines. I am not sure what protesters who want to keep it peaceful should do about that.
A reminder of what happened during the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis — certain people destroying property and setting fires were shown to be white supremacist agitators intent on creating a narrative of violent protestors to move the focus away from the real story.
I had not heard that, so I asked Grok (X AI) and it confirmed your statement. I like to be fair, so since I was prepared to challenge this fact if necessary I will confirm it instead.
I was thinking that if I was part of Trump's regime it would be so easy to send just one or two people to join a crowd of demonstrators, then hurl a rock through a shop window or car or at the police line.
I was googling it and found this article from the time of George Floyd protests. It's very instructive:
"In rally after rally, people have observed that looting and destruction only began after police charged and beat a crowd, or fired tear gas or rubber bullets into it. In other cases, it can take just one act by a protester to light the spark. Given the chaotic nature of the protests, it’s probable that everyone being blamed for property damage has played some role."
It also describes several historical instances of regimes using provocateurs to infiltrate protests and escalate violence in order to justify an escalated response.
Edited to add this quote:
"It is a historical fact, as this episode illustrates, that law enforcement frequently infiltrates progressive political movements using agent provocateurs who urge others to engage in violence. It is also a historical fact that, more rarely, such provocateurs commit acts of violence themselves."
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/02/history-united-states-government-infiltration-protests/
I saw a video of LAPD cops smashing in their own windshield on one of their police cars!
That was a ligit video, but it was previously "smashed" by a mostly peaceful protestor. There is video of that, too. The police were "clearing" the windshield so that they could see through it to move it from the scene...
"The cruiser's windshield was intact before officers left the intersection, but it was broken by the time they returned. Footage (archived) from RMG News, a network of journalists/videographers in LA, showed a hooded person stomping on the window of the cruiser on June 8 — identified by the identical license plate number, 1251352."
I don't believe that's a valid California license plate number!
Well, that's the number on the video I assume you referred to, but with AI, what do I know?? :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ACAB/comments/1l6xrcz/lapd_smashing_their_own_car_for_some_reason/
Agreed that it's the bad stuff and not the size of the peaceful crowds that will make the news. Which is why my fervent hope is the Chicago event Saturday will be as peaceful, and as well-attended, as the Women's and Science marches were during his first administration.
I'm pleased that the No Kings organizers specify nonviolence, and impressed that they've been offering training calls for event hosts and attendees about de-escalation of possible conflicts.
Think about the rants of the orange stain for a moment. If one us decided to go march, would it automatically mean we were paid professional protesters? The orange stain ignore that there are lots and lots of people that go to these things because they don't like the orange stain. Furthermore, the orange stain has never once proven that anything more than a miniscule number of people are paid professional organizers.
But has he even proven that one person was paid to protest. I believe those are just rantings from his demented, deranged teeny little mind.
Chris Cuomo's monologue last night talked about China funding the groups organizing the protests such as CHIRLA and PSL. How much is true, I don't know. Regardless, agree that keeping bad elements from wreaking havoc is the biggest challenge to a peaceful protest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VieqSQ9CIyY
Cuomo just makes shit up to get clicks. He's about as reliable of a journalist as Alex Jones.
It's like the Wuhan lab leak theory. Don't worry about the messenger, so much as the possibility that it's true. Same as Cuomo, the New York Times published a full investigation on Billionaire Neville Roy Singham, his connection to China and leftist radicals two years ago. It makes perfect sense that this guy would try to get involved with current protests. It's what he does: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html
While not diminishing the many people whose intention was peaceful protest, it is apparent with trucks pulling up to unload cases of expensive tactical masks that someone is organizing and funding people intending nonpeaceful actions.
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2025/06/10/whos-funding-this-reporters-notice-something-very-interesting-being-given-to-la-rioters-n2190277
Disagree. Anyone can show up and dump off supplies. It doesn't prove it has anything to do with the people that show up to march. I do agree with you that marches like this do attract those that show up just to cause trouble and don't even care what the cause it. They are called anarchists. It is not a new occurrence. Europe has dealt with it for decades. They are simply those that want to tear down society, regardless of the cause. The problem is the orange stain using them to label entire causes and legitimate protesters.
Hi Laurence - My assertion that there were preorganized well funded groups prepared to mobilize and cause mayhem does not in any way preclude that there were many, perhaps a good majority of peaceful protesters. But the fact that there was widespread vandalism, many cars including police vehicles fire bombed and burned and extensive looting in the downtown area reflects a very large-scale lawlessness that was allowed to continue by Mayor Bass and Governor Newsom until President Trump activated the National Guard to bring the situation under control.
Number one, you ignored your own message which was about professional organizers. Number two, allowed by the mayor and governor? That's total nonsense! You think they met before the march and said "Hey, when the bad stuff happens, we are simply going to let it?" The lawlessness was also not as great as shown on the news and Bass communicated with the National Guard and announced a curfew as soon as necessary. Furthermore, how much of the trouble happened only after the orange stain illegally decided to send in the National Guard? Come on David, the same thing happened in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention. Yes, things were thrown at police. But much of that was after CPD went rogue and attacked protesters and Daley announced "shoot to kill". It's not uncommon for ill-trained law enforcement to make things worse.
"Things were thrown at police". I believe that is a massive understatement of the real situation. There were literally dozens of mostly police cars totally trashed because they were being firebombed, with rocks and cinder blocks being thrown through the windows, all of which could easily have killed someone. As it was, police officers were injured. And there was very widespread vandalism and booting all throughout the business district. The situation was totally out of hand with the police unable or unauthorized to respond until the National Guard arrived on the scene after several nights of this dangerous lawlessness. If anything in my view, the police were overly constrained as I believe greater force should have been used on anyone fire bombing or pelting police with potentially lethal objects. To suggest that the arrival of National Guard troops in some way incited greater lawlessness is totally illogical. This was a page right out of Governor Walz's Playbook when he was very content to sit on his hands and about a good part of Minneapolis to burn for three nights before he finally called in the guard which then stopped the riots.
A friend texted me advice for Saturday's parade, which the creator wants to go viral:
"If violence breaks out at your protest, SIT DOWN. Leave only the provocateurs standing. Please share far and wide. DO NOT let them provoke you!"
Sounds strategic and workable to me. Is anyone better informed?
Does this mean that peaceful protesters should plan ahead by toting lawn chairs?
Barcalongers would be more evident.
A friend texted me advice for Saturday's parade, which the creator wants to go viral:
"If violence breaks out at your protest, SIT DOWN. Leave only the provocateurs standing. Please share far and wide. DO NOT let them provoke you!"
Sounds strategic and workable to me. Is anyone better informed?
I’m not sitting down in a riot. Good way to get trampled.
Looks as if you're right. Today I saw https://www.facebook.com/groups/50501movement/posts/1059790212424974/ which advocates remaining mobile and trying to stay one with the crowd.
I lettered a sign to wear on my back: "PATRIOTIC [in red/white/blue] PEACEFUL PROTESTER". No guarantee, of course, but it does demonstrate my benevolent intent. Also, I'm tired of claims that real "patriots" mindlessly rubber-stamp everything a president says or does. Whether in parenting or citizenship, the people who really care make an effort to shape the finished product into the best it can become.
Wait until trump and Baldemort (kudos to the coiner) see all the Irish flags in Chicago.
Seol isteach na Marines!!!!
The orange stain is going to be busy at the royal parade.
Seemed he had trouble staying awake. A problem at his age.
You mean the orange stain, who spent years bashing Sleepy Joe, couldn't stay awake??? Say it ain't so!
Stephen Miller looks like Nosferatu’s dorky kid brother…
Or Igor from Frankenstein
Igor wasn’t a character in Frankenstein. You’re thinking of Fritz.
You're right, but I am also kind of right :) Igor is kind of a stock character so Fritz is an "Igor". Also Bela Lugosi played "Ygor" in "Son of Frankenstein".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_(character)
It's pronounced "EYE-gor"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqe_T_gTG0
Loved the "Young Frankenstein' reference . . . .
It's impossible to be too angry at Miller. It's a rotten to the core excuse for a human!
Impossible, you say? Not sure I agree.
I prefer Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings, the insidious evil advisor to King Théoden of Rohan.
Are we sure that Terry Moran didn’t do this on purpose? He’s 65, his contract was up. One of the advantages of being this age is the knowledge that you’re old enough to just walk away. For the last few years I’ve been close enough to retirement that I’ve almost been hoping that my boss will do something that I’ll be able to reply to with “fuck you, I quit”. Sadly, I have a good relationship with my boss.
Had the same thought- Terry had the FU money in his pocket and an excellent back up plan already in place. What better way to get attention to a new venture (especially by what is likely to be his key demo) than with a flamethrower?!? Also, having done it myself, it is extremely therapeutic and also fun! You can't even know how many envious former co-workers will call you later and thank you for saying what they could not.
FYI, Phillip, I had an awful boss and my last day was an exercise in self-care.
I had an awful boss back in 2007, and one reason I would not be able to work for our president is because he reminds me of that boss. However my boss pissed off the wrong guy and was gone, and I’m like the cockroach who survived all the office warfare over the years.
Eric mentioned in the Mincing Rascals that he was part of a peaceful protest in Chicago recently that got little attention from media. I think that answers the question of why so many protests have agitators (whether planned or not). No one likes to complain and not get noticed.
I do believe though, that if you do protest for a cause you believe in you should be willing or prepared to get arrested.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about being prepared to be arrested. If my intent is simply to add my one more person to a peaceful rally with the message of opposing this administration -- which is a completely legal and constitutionally protected right -- and I have faith that Chicago police know that and have plenty of experience with big crowds, and I would never, ever engage in any violent or even provocative action, why should I expect to be arrested?
By prepared to be arrested I was thinking of the 1960s protests where Blacks sat at a Woolworth lunch counter. It was against the law and they were protesting that law. Not sure if it applies to the current case.
Ok, yes, I get that. Having the courage of one's convictions if one engages in civil disobedience. That's choosing to violate the law to make a point, and yes, of course expect to be arrested. But just participating in a peaceful protest shouldn't get anyone arrested because that's *absolutely* authoritarian behavior whether on the part of Chicago Police or Trump.
Regarding trusting mass media, I’m reminded that I was in college during the Iranian hostage crisis, and every day a bunch of us would head down to the lounge to watch Walter Cronkite give us the latest. He was trusted.
Ted Koppel went from late-night news anchor to household name due to the hostage crisis.
Nothing like a good tragedy to advance someone’s career. Many reporters who covered the JFK assassination also became household names. Like Dan Rather.
Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet?
You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet.
Get the widow on the set! We need dirty laundry...
My wife got us tickets for the Mincing Rascals in Ottawa. I know Eric won’t be there, but if any of my fellow commenters will be there say hi. Anyone else going?
did you mean 75309 instead of 57309? And Generation X lays claim to that song as well.
I don’t think any of Eric’s subscribers will be the ones throwing rocks or setting fires, but I do wish I could transfer his words directly into the brains of the mostly young, hormonal people who think any occasion is one for mayhem.
I used to be a young, hormonal person. If two or more people were doing something, it didn’t really matter what that something was, but I’d do it. So the trick is to not have the first two people do it. Then the followers will stay behaved.
Just a quick note to mention that the registration form for the obscene parade has no validity checks on any of the inputs, you can make up any random email (just use @[anything].com), phone and zip, they all go through without validation. I registered several rock stars that will unfortunately be too busy (and in some cases too deceased) to attend.
This is the link again: https://events.america250.org/events/250th-anniversary-of-the-us-army-grand-military-parade-and-celebration
Thanks! I wasn't sure, so I used our real data. Now I'll have to spend the next few weeks deleting and blocking the MAGAs.
I've often used the email address nomail@nomail.org.
I tried to register Albert DiSalvo, the Boston Strangler, but you need a verification code they send to the phone to actually do it, so I won't be able to finish it.
Damn!
"The 'clean sweep' ought to begin by giving this dangerously unqualified nutjob [RFK Jr.] the broom.” Eric, have you forgotten what decade we’re in? The more dangerous and unqualified the better these days. A new rallying cry: “I dare you to stay alive in 2025!"
As Alan Grayson said, the Republican healthcare plan is basically "die quickly!"
Ebenezer Scrooge- "Then they should die quickly and decrease the surplus population."
I can just read the PS in the email as is and I know that can't be corrected by Eric. If I select Read In App, am I getting the online version?
yes
I am thinking back to the Civil Rights marches of the '60s. MLK exhorted peaceful action over violence to effect change. It might have taken longer, but it worked.
True but 1) people attacked him and his fellow peaceful protesters and 2) the brother still ended up with a bullet in his head.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
Not quite. Colored people were being attacked, shot at, and hung before the marches.
Read Mike Royko. Chicagoans didn't care while the marches were in the suburbs. Everyone knew there would be problems when King and his people marched through Bridgeport.
Peaceful protest is good for the soul, but I remember Trump’s violent clearing out of the BLM protesters near the White House — too many folks still think “Those new curfew-ignoring hippies had it comin’” Large groups lose their sense of individual accountability, and with phone cameras everywhere, no indiscretion will go unnoticed. So, first sign of federal authority at a protest and I’d recommend a total retreat to use all of that energy on the few people that matter: those who have the legislative and financial power to change the course.
I got my tickets to the parade, so sign up folks. No shows would be a shame, not!
It seems to me that Moran was fired for the equivalent of saying that Hitler was a Nazi. It's just true, not an accusation.
But also that he looked like a Nazi. Charlie Chaplin ‘looked’ like a Nazi with that little mustache. But I wouldn’t say he was one.
Except Chaplin had used that look for 20 years before Hitler!